UK Finance (uk.finance) Discussion about Finance issues in the UK.

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Old October 19th 04, 08:57 PM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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Could someone explain precisely what this means?
I am a member of a club that has lost it's liquor license (incompetence),
but the lunatic committee think they have now convinced the police to let
them have another one.
The problem is, after being closed for 4 months the lunatic committee tell
the members that there is about 3k in the bank and over 10k of
creditors(including 6k for unpaid stock used in the last month before they
were closed down), but that is "no problem" as they can "trade their way out
of debt." Btw, there has been no audited accounts for 3 years so no-one
knows the true financial position, and the committee always lie through
their teeth.

Question: What are the "funds-in-hand" of this club? 3k? or -7k? Unknown?
The reason I ask is that I understand it is not legally possible for a club
like this - an unincorporated association - to operate except by payments
out of "funds in hand." Todd v. Emly(1841) ; Wood v. Finch(1861)

What remedy is there to prevent these idiots from continuing to trade?

cheers


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Old October 19th 04, 09:09 PM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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"Jasper Richards" wrote in message
...
Could someone explain precisely what this means?
I am a member of a club that has lost it's liquor license (incompetence),
but the lunatic committee think they have now convinced the police to let
them have another one.
The problem is, after being closed for 4 months the lunatic committee tell
the members that there is about 3k in the bank and over 10k of
creditors(including 6k for unpaid stock used in the last month before they
were closed down), but that is "no problem" as they can "trade their way
out
of debt." Btw, there has been no audited accounts for 3 years so no-one
knows the true financial position, and the committee always lie through
their teeth.

Question: What are the "funds-in-hand" of this club? 3k? or -7k? Unknown?
The reason I ask is that I understand it is not legally possible for a
club
like this - an unincorporated association - to operate except by payments
out of "funds in hand." Todd v. Emly(1841) ; Wood v. Finch(1861)

What remedy is there to prevent these idiots from continuing to trade?


Just let em get on with it and watch from a safe distance.


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Old October 19th 04, 09:59 PM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
tim tim is offline
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"Jasper Richards" wrote in message
...
Could someone explain precisely what this means?
I am a member of a club that has lost it's liquor license (incompetence),
but the lunatic committee think they have now convinced the police to let
them have another one.
The problem is, after being closed for 4 months the lunatic committee tell
the members that there is about 3k in the bank and over 10k of
creditors(including 6k for unpaid stock used in the last month before they
were closed down),


What other assets does the club own? The value of this should
be added to the CIH to work out if the club is trading solvently
or not.

hth

tim


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Old October 19th 04, 10:06 PM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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What remedy is there to prevent these idiots from continuing to trade?

Just let em get on with it and watch from a safe distance.


Agreed, just let them get on with it.

Plenty of companies trade with a seriously negative bank account.
One company I worked for had a 1.5m overdraft for over 12
months. The bank only decided to call it a day when it reached
2m. The directors lied through their teeth about their prospects
which is why it went on for so long.

Matt.


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Old October 19th 04, 11:58 PM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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"tim" wrote in message
...

What other assets does the club own? The value of this should
be added to the CIH to work out if the club is trading solvently
or not.

Well, as I said there have been no audited accounts for 3 years. There have
in fact been no accounts for 3 years either, just ad-hoc meaningless
'balance-sheets' provided by the committee from time-to-time. The property
is held on a lease, the only conceivable assets I guess are fixtures and
fittings and any left-over stock. We suspect the committee are
fiddledeedee..... Father, Son, son's girlfriend, son's girlfriend's
brother either working behind the bar, on the committeee or both.


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Old October 20th 04, 12:33 AM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:58:19 +0100, "Jasper Richards"
wrote:


"tim" wrote in message
...

What other assets does the club own? The value of this should
be added to the CIH to work out if the club is trading solvently
or not.

Well, as I said there have been no audited accounts for 3 years. There have
in fact been no accounts for 3 years either, just ad-hoc meaningless
'balance-sheets' provided by the committee from time-to-time. The property
is held on a lease, the only conceivable assets I guess are fixtures and
fittings and any left-over stock. We suspect the committee are
fiddledeedee..... Father, Son, son's girlfriend, son's girlfriend's
brother either working behind the bar, on the committeee or both.


Unless you stand to personally lose anything, I'd be inclined to leave
them to it. It sounds as if they are making themselves a noose.

As something that the OP's question brought to mind, I recall years
ago (and in a different country), a club circumvented the liquor
licencing law by having a "ticket" system. It started as a genuine
"storage" system. People were permitted to bring their own booze for
consumption in the clubhouse. The club provided storage and
refrigeration for the member's own booze, and issued tickets so that
the members could claim their property. The members had to pay for
the tickets - a charge for the storage of their property.

Later, certain club members bought more booze than they would
personally expect to consume, and sold their tickets to other club
members who had not brought anything so that they could redeem and
consume the drink. It then developed into a more formalised
arrangement, where the club commitee would stock the bar with drink,
and sell tickets to members to "reclaim" the booze that had been
"bought on their behalf". The tickets were also used in exchange for
food and other goods - which again were purchased and prepared by club
members on behalf of all.

At the time & place, this system was a loophole in the law that
effectively allowed the sale of alcohol without a licence, because the
booze on the premises was regarded as being the collective personal
property of the members, and its distribution in exchange for a ticket
did not constitute the sale of alcohol.

I wonder if that would work in the UK today?

--
Cynic

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Old October 20th 04, 01:25 AM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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"Skinny" wrote in message
...

Just let em get on with it and watch from a safe distance.

I did not ask you for advice on tactics, but advice on law. I do not intend
to follow your advice on tactics. Thanks anyway.......


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Old October 20th 04, 08:52 PM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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"Jasper Richards" wrote in message
...
"Skinny" wrote in message
...

Just let em get on with it and watch from a safe distance.

I did not ask you for advice on tactics, but advice on law. I do not
intend
to follow your advice on tactics. Thanks anyway.......


You might find a more respectful post, indicating the nature of the
requested response in absolute clarity will result in the response you seek,
you condescending arrogant ****head.

MC


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Old October 21st 04, 12:39 AM posted to uk.legal,uk.finance,uk.consultants
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"Marcus Collie" wrote You
might find a more respectful post, indicating the nature of the
requested response in absolute clarity will result in the response you

seek,
you condescending arrogant ****head.

Are you an Englishman?


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