On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco etc....

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco etc....

I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that doesn't tax
petrol as heavily. Diesel perhaps, but even then the percentage difference
is small

tim

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income
tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no
waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax
limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to
15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an
increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it
will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK
in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember
that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

But which fund decent state pensions, unemployment benefit etc, ie a
proper insurance not a tax. In the UK over the last few decades NI has
gone up while contributory benefits have gone down (in earnings
terms).

--
Andy

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income
tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so
much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no
waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax
limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop
to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an
increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it
will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the
UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember
that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco
etc....

I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that doesn't
tax petrol as heavily.

Apart from, erm, the vast majority of them?

http://www2.oecd.org/ecoinst/queries/TaxRateInfo.htm

--
Andy

Graham Murray wrote:
Doug writes:

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect,

Which should *not* have been temporary. VAT was increased to 17.5% to
fund the (short term) extra expenditure[1] involved in the move from
Community Charge (aka Poll Tax) to Council Tax.

[1] ISTR that it was to fund some sort of relief payments.

I'd forgotten that, thanks.

Actually, I'm more concerned about local taxes. My council tax has
increased around 8%/year it seems for years. I could look it up, I
guess, but each year it busts inflation by some margin.

One of the fascinating ways of doing business with the government is
that if you quote for a job, you are allowed to adjust it for inflation.
Try that with ordinary businesses, and they'd laugh in your face
(except for very large projects, of course).

Inflation proof supplies - the RPI should be a reflection on costs, not
an excuse for increasing costs - it distorts prices as soon as you do that.

--

Doug

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an
increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco etc....

I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that doesn't tax
petrol as heavily.

Apart from, erm, the vast majority of them?

http://www2.oecd.org/ecoinst/queries/TaxRateInfo.htm

Um, I'm surprised. I would have thought that the 30% drop in the pound had
equalised most of them, which IME were never 30% cheaper.

I note that that have created these figures to a nominal 2009 exchange rate.
I wonder what they used?

tim

On Sat, 12 Jun 2010 23:56:29 +0100, Doug wrote:

Graham Murray wrote:
Doug writes:

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect,

Which should *not* have been temporary. VAT was increased to 17.5% to
fund the (short term) extra expenditure[1] involved in the move from
Community Charge (aka Poll Tax) to Council Tax.

[1] ISTR that it was to fund some sort of relief payments.

I'd forgotten that, thanks.

Actually, I'm more concerned about local taxes. My council tax has
increased around 8%/year it seems for years. I could look it up, I
guess, but each year it busts inflation by some margin.

It depends on what figure you take for inflation. The CPI is
completely unrealistic IMHO as it excludes significant expenditure
such as housing costs. The RPI is better but also underestimates the
real inflation rates for many of us.

You can calculate your own personal rate of inflation at the ONS web
site he http://www.statistics.gov.uk/pic/. Mine has always come
out a lot higher than the official figures.

--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
om...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug
wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%,
income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so
much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no
waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might
be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax
limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop
to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an
increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced,
it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave
the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries
remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice
ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco
etc....

I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that
doesn't tax petrol as heavily.

Apart from, erm, the vast majority of them?

http://www2.oecd.org/ecoinst/queries/TaxRateInfo.htm

Um, I'm surprised. I would have thought that the 30% drop in the
pound had equalised most of them, which IME were never 30% cheaper.

I think you've got that the wrong way round. If the pound drops 30%
then UK duties become cheaper measured in EUR.

--
Andy

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
news:ru6116d81f3au4vp007o2fn3tlk47fg63t@4ax. com...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%, income
tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax
limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary drop to
15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that an
increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in £13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced, it
will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave the UK
in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries remember
that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco etc....

I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that doesn't tax
petrol as heavily.

Apart from, erm, the vast majority of them?

http://www2.oecd.org/ecoinst/queries/TaxRateInfo.htm

Um, I'm surprised. I would have thought that the 30% drop in the pound
had equalised most of them, which IME were never 30% cheaper.

I think you've got that the wrong way round. If the pound drops 30% then
UK duties become cheaper measured in EUR.

That's right.

I meant the other countries weren't 30% cheaper.

tim

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Andy Pandy" wrote in message
...

"tim...." wrote in message
...

"Mark" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Jun 2010 11:38:40 +0100, "tim...."
wrote:


"Mark" wrote in message
news:ru6116d81f3au4vp007o2fn3tlk47fg63t@4ax .com...
On Wed, 09 Jun 2010 21:48:17 +0100, Doug
wrote:

mick wrote:

The alternative to cuts are rising taxes.VAT to say 25%,
income tax
and NI.Probably better in the long run to stop spending so
much.

Whoa! You're just a radical aren't you?

Yes, VAT will undoubtedly increase because it's instant - no
waiting
around for year end assessments. To soften the blow, it might
be
accompanied by the phased introduction of the £10k income tax
limit -
say £1000/year over five years.

So how much is VAT going to increase? The recent temporary
drop to 15%
didn't seem to have much effect, so they might conclude that
an increase
to 20% wouldn't frighten the horses, and it would bring in
£13
Billion/year. Combined with the £6 Billion already announced,
it will
certainly reduce the deficit significantly - and still leave
the UK in
the middle ranks of VAT rates.

Although 20% VAT would be comparible to other countries
remember that
we are more heavily taxed in other areas.

But not in all. Most countries have NI rates which are twice
ours

And some countries do not tax heavily fuel, alcohol, tabacco
etc....

I think you will have difficulty finding an EU country that
doesn't tax petrol as heavily.

Apart from, erm, the vast majority of them?

http://www2.oecd.org/ecoinst/queries/TaxRateInfo.htm

Um, I'm surprised. I would have thought that the 30% drop in the
pound had equalised most of them, which IME were never 30%
cheaper.

I think you've got that the wrong way round. If the pound drops 30%
then UK duties become cheaper measured in EUR.

That's right.

I meant the other countries weren't 30% cheaper.

Ah, I see what you mean. But our fuel duty has gone up over the last 4
years or so whereas most other countries haven't much by the looks of
it, some have even gone down. So the fall in the pound has been offset
by UK duties rising about 20% over the last 4 years.

If you look at France for example, for 2000-2008 their duty was higher
than ours based on the 2009 exchange rate they used, but is now lower.

You can see the underlying figures if you click on the graph.

--
Andy